Detailed Presentation; New Phono Section is Amazing

Where is the old lush 8150i sound? Do I smell a Krell?

This is a review for those already owning the Plinius 8150i and are thinking about the upgrade to the 8200. This ~$400 upgrade includes replacing the power supplies for the main amp and phono, a new face place, and some other tweaks. The amp gains ~25w/ch, but other specs are said to be stable. You wouldn't think power supplies would have that dramatic an effect on the sound...but read on.

I have another friend who also did the same upgrade and we concur in our judgment, mostly, on the new sound, but with somewhat different conclusions. The word to the wise here is: Caution.

The first thing I noticed about the 8200 is that it took a lot longer to break in after power-on than the 8150, despite extensive bench testing during the upgrade. A full five days needed to elapse before the 8200 was listenable, IMHO. Too etched in the highs. I waited. I worried. But the new unit runs cooler. Less worry.

The next thing I noticed was the lack of mid-range tubey bloom on female vocals. This was disappointing, even if the old sound was less accurate. The sound was less warm, though it wasn't any harder or more etched (after 5 days). Frankly, I didn't like the sound in comparison. I was very worried.

Then I waited a couple more days and started to listen to a bunch of random CDs. I began noticing a new sound coming from my speakers -- a micro-detailed sound with incredible depth and nuance. The sound wasn't particular warm, bloomy, or euphonic, but the new detail knocked me over. Was the old 8150 amp hiding/glossing over this detail? By comparison, it was.

The upgraded phono section makes me wonder why I bothered listening to the old one. The new one is much more detailed, has tighter bass, and sounds full bodied -- it retains a touch of warmth, too. The sound from vinyl is alive. Makes me want to toss my CDs or get a better unit.

My other 8200-upgraded friend says the new sound is much more typical of high-end electronics (Krell, Levinson, Classe) than the old 8150i sound. He doesn't like the results. I have more mixed feelings, thinking that the added micro resolution and improved phono section are adequate compensation for the less tubey mids...maybe.

I'm going to keep my original rating for the 8150i here since I don't want to mix 8200 reviews with the 8150i reviews.

As with all high-end equipment, a personal audition is usually your best bet.

Associated Equipment:
Plinius 8200 (USA rep. upgrade from 8150i); MIT Z-CordII
Dynaudio 1.8MKIIs w/ JPS ultraconductors
Rotel RCD-971 w/ Audioquest Emeralds
VPI HW-19jr w/ Shure VMR-V, VPI MM tonearm (PT-5)
Various power/line filters.

I've seen a lot of posts for the 8150i and wanted people to be reassured that it is THE best integrated solid state on the market... period. Their is not a lot of dealers and many reading these are trying to figure out if they should risk shelling out the $$'s before hearing it. I am a dealer here in MN and have delighted several customers who had a budget but still wanted highend without any compromise. Truth be known, other Plinius dealers are concerned to show this in their show room. Reason is it cannibalizes the highend separates. Actually, it is VERY close (95%) of the SA250IV and M14 combo by Plinius at $8500 plus $3495 respectively. If I did an A-B blind test and left the customer select the best sounding system, they would choose the 8150i versus $6-8K separates from other highend/respectable contenders. This is not a commercial; I am speaking what my ears hear... Brands like, Krell, Class'e, Bryston (I am a dealer on two of these three lines) cannot compete unless you are talking about their very top end units. Other integrates sound very solid state (grainy and brittle) without bottom end control. The other integrated units have a lot of detail missing in comparison. Something I cannot compromise on. It may help to know how Plinius accomplished this feet.... Why are the separates so much more and close in sound? Admittedly simplifying the story, the main difference resides in heat.... The separate Plinius amp has a switch to go back and forth between Class A and Class A/B. The thought is when you are not CRITICALLY listening why run the amp hot. For those who do not know, Class A is a mode where it is THE most linear portion of the transistor. The facts are it must be biased (turned on) most of the time and heat is generated. The way to remove heat is via heatsinks which are VERY expensive to make, VERY expensive to cast (the molds cost $60K each), and VERY expensive to ship from New Zealand. These three combos' make up the lion share on the cost of the amp. If you compare the 8150i to the separates run in A-B you would see how close they sound. It should be noted that the 1st amplification (the most critical) is class A!At $3K list and a street price that is less, it is THE deal of all highend.
The other reviews do a good job describing how it sounds but I like to describe it as a neutral, detailed, accurate sounding amp with no noticeable down side.
Needless to say I am delighted to give it my highest recommendations.
Should you buy the seperates? Depends on your budget and the need for perfection. You will hear a difference. I have customers who will pay thousands to gain 1% like wire, conditioners etc. (you know where you fall in this catagory). To gain 5% is a lot for some, a little for others. I have customers who monoblocked the 250mkIV and they thought it was worth it.
I would be happy to field additional questions like recommended speakers, sources, etc. If you have a Plinius dealer, support them. If not, I would be happy to offer you a quote and more analysis assuming you are located in the States. I hope this helps..
Steve of Sound Video 612-308-7736
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Authorized Lines:
ATI, Acurus, Aerial Acoustics, Aragon, B&K, Bryston, Class'e, Cinepro, DynAudio, EAD (Enlightend Audio Designs), Energy, Gallo Acoustics, Gershman Acoustics (, Innersound (ElectroStatic), Lexicon,
Marantz, M&K, Monitor Audio, NHT, Panamax, Parasound, Pioneer (Not Elite), Plinius, Sherwood NewCastle, Toshiba, & Velodyne.

Actually, the model is a Plinius 8150. For some reason, Plinius dropped the "i" designation, unlike their 2100i integrated.

Here's the major components of my new system:
Plinius 8150
Dynaudio Contour 1.8 Mk II w/ Signet MusicLine speaker cable 8'
Rotel RCD-940BX w/ Audioquest Turquoise interconnects
VPI HW-19jr w/ Shure V15-VMR
Nakamichi BX-300 tape w/dbx 3BX-III processor w/Signet interconnects

After listening to lot of gear, I decided to replace my Nakamichi RE-2 receiver
and Definitive DR-7 tall monitor speakers. I always thought the sound of this
combination was a cost/benefit champ. But, as I upgraded my other components (turntable from an Onkyo direct-drive, and CD player from an old dbx), I realized the amp/pre/speaker combination was limiting the sound quality.

So, after extensive auditioning and research, I settled on the Plinius for my pre/amp. Why? #1) It has a remote for the volume. I would absolutely not sacrifice this minimal listening convenience. #2) It has tape loops with record out and source. I needed this in order to use the dbx 3BX-III processor with any source. #3) I need lots of clean power (230W into 4 ohms) to drive the relatively inefficient Dynaudios. #4) It has a built-in phono section. Again, a requirement. I didn't want to deal with an outboard phono processor. #5) Terrific reviews in selected trade press (and Plinius equipment in general gets high marks). #6) Very friendly distributor (Larry in Tulsa, OK) and dealer (Bob of Avalon Audio in NJ). #7) Right performance for the money.

I had an audiophile friend come over to take a listen. This friend works at
a very high-end store in Pennsylvania and has heard $100,000 systems, etc. and all the latest gear. Yes, you've guess it: He was astounded by the sound, as was I. He said he'd never heard the Dynaudios sound so clear, crystaline and liquid (Although he did comment that he couldn't wait to hear the system with a "real" CD setup like his D/A converters and jitter filters, etc.-- but admitted the sound of the Rotel was very nice.). After a 48hr warm-up period, the Plinius 8150 revealed levels of detail in records and CDs I had no clue even existed. Joni Mitchell's BLUE CD, on the song Blue: 10 seconds into it, you can hear her release the sustain pedal on the piano. It sounds so real you're startled to the point of crying. I put on some old vinyl like Lene Lovich's STATELESS (the Stiff red vinyl release) and listened to "Lucky Number". There's so much detail in this song that I never heard with the old setup. So liquid with beautiful highs but not any unpleasantness. Holographic imaging that truly sounds holographic. Tight, accurate bass (a Dynaudio trademark), I'm sure enhanced by the Plinius. Drums especially sounded real (listing to Japan's TIN DRUM LP)rather than a bunch of low-frequency thumps. Even things like Snoop Doggy Dogg's DOGGYSTYLE's CD intro track -- where you can hear the bathtub water actually splashing around in front of you, and other water sounds clearly hitting the bowl...you'll be bowled over.

So, is the Plinius better than say a Krell KAV-300i or a Classe CAP-150, etc? I can't answer. All I can say is that the sound coming out of the system is so good it's hard to do anything else BUT listen.

About the Plinius: Plinius suggests you keep it on all the time. It does generate some heat, being that of its 150 watts, the first 3 are Class A. It gets warm to the touch, but I wouldn't say dangerously hot. Also, it has a beautiful blue panel light, but it's too bright in my environment (so I put defuser tape on top of the on/off light). On my black model, the writing is hard to read in anything but very bright light. This makes it very atractive, but a pain to decypher from across the room. Small items and they don't affect the pristine sound one bit.

Beats any phono preamp/preamp/amp combo at double the price.

Nothing that has not been mentioned before by other reviewers: Very long warm-up period, manual selection of source.

This is an incredible amplifier: It has power to drive any speaker in the market, yet its as subtle as some of the finest 15 watt tube gear. In comparison with the Krell 300i, its much more refined and linear, especially in high frequencies.

Equipment:

Thorens TD 320
Shure 15v
Marantz DV-18
Plinius 8150
Dunlavy SCIII

I listened to the 8150 after a72 hour break-in period using the XLO test and burn-in CD and was absolutely floored by the sound. My system consists of an EAD Ultradisc 2000, the Plinius, Harmonic Technology speaker wire and interconnects and the Dynaudio Contour 3.3s. I previously was using tube seperates for the amp/ preamp sections, and I have to say that the Plinius was superior. Gone were the tube smoothies and the midrange remained just aspowerful if not more so. I would have to say that I have not heard a combination that is more revealing of the source material anywhere. I have listened to Krell, Audio Research, Levinson, Classe, and Sonic Frontiers, and although they were all very good to excellent none of them made the Contours sing like the Plinius. Anyone who believes integrated amps can produce good musical sound should give this unit a listen before spending thousands more on seperates of any type. Just make sure the amp has been broken in and turned on for at least a week!

This is a follow-up review. I've had my Plinius for a number of months and want to describe some of my experiences. First, I've had some problems with quality control. Not clear whether problems occurred during shipping or from the factory in NZ. So, please invest in a good dealer. Avalon Audio in NJ was very responsive. However, the distributor isn't too responsive, so I wouldn't deal at that level. Second, you really need to let the unit settle down for a good 48 hours before subjecting it to serious play. You can't just take this unit to a dealer, plug it in, and start doing A/B comparisons.
That said, my audiophile friend and I spent Saturday listening critically to some exotic gear at a neat high-fi place, Deva-Vu, in McLean, VA: custom-built Western Electric 300B (real ones) push-pull tube dual-mono amps driven by a CARY tube preamp w/ phono section, Dynaudio-clone speakers, with both high-end turntable and CD gear (and, of course, expensive interconnects). Everyone knows the 300B is *the* magic liquid tube and Cary produces very fine gear (Stereophile can't say enough good about Cary). This was a really nice shop specializing in tube gear (custom and brand-name) and mostly U.K. peripherals.

Afterwards, I went home and played the same LPs and CDs on my Plinius setup.

The Bottom Line: The Plinius sounded superior: It was less fatiguing, less bloomy, tighter, crisper, and the vocals sounded real, rather than having euphonic distortion added to them. The WE300B vocals sounded very smooth, but not particularly accurate. Now, an AR VT100mkII might blow the doors of WE300B tube gear and/or the Plinius. I won't get into a SS vs. Tube debate here. Maybe it's a preference of sound quality, but I rather be listening to my Plinius.

I have just replaced my tube seperates with this remarkable integrated amp and can recommend it enthusiastically. My prime source is LP's and the quality of the 8150's phono stage has taken me by surprise! Recordings that I had written off as second rate and 'clouded', have been opened up and revealed anew. The amplifier is very transparent from top to bottom. The treble is of particular note but not because it stands out. Quite the opposite. Somehow this amplifier presents treble detail with a clear,open clarity without a hint of brightness. The low end too, as expected, out punches my low powered tube amps but also provides an unexpected improvement in instrumental detail and 'texture'. This combined with its low noise floor provides a substantial improvement over my previous setup and at much cheaper cost. In fact, in Australia, the 8150 is something of a bargain. Competing amps from Krell and Classe are twice the cost!
Caveats? The amp does require a long warm up (must be left on for best sound).It also runs pretty warm and requires plenty of ventilation. Other than that its plain sailing and not even any tubes to replace!
For the record, my associated equipment:
VPI TNT/ Graham 1.5T/ Sumiko BPS
Proac Response 2
Wireworld Eclipse interconnects
Goertz Veracity biwire speaker cable
I rate the 8150 5 stars. I suppose there must be better amps out there (I should withhold a star on that basis/assuption), but at the price this may be all the amplifier a sensible person will ever need!

smooth and refined without harshness, full rich bass, wonderfully controlled with slam factor, very well balanced in all areas; can go very loud to ear popping levels without distortion. Parts very well made and sturdy. 20 year warranty makes this a great 2nd hand product with positive resale value. Volume control is excellent. I love the simple yet solid remote.

RCA plugs are a little too close together (vertically), my Wireworld Eclipse II is a little too snug fitting for comfort. It gets hot after heavy listening.

Even though I've only had this amp for 4 days, the impression it has left me is just breathtaking and I just couldnt wait to write this review. The improvement over the Krell 300i that it replaces is shocking to say the least. This Plinius blows away the Krell, no exception. Bass is fuller, tighter and surprisingly more satisfying than the 300i. Highs are smoother, not as bright. Amp is very neutral, neither forward nor laid back. Resolution is high, very transparent without being cruelly revealing. Binding posts and RCA plugs are better than 300i; workmanship surpasses the Krell. Dont let the light weight full you, this baby packs a power punch. As for the music.. incredible. (From other reviews, the SimAudio Moon I-5 may be equally as good for a little less money; I wish I had a dealer near here i could have auditioned it from) I am 100% satisfied with what Plinius has created here. Quite possibly the BEST solid state integrated for under $5000. For $2500, the Krell 300i is NOT worth it, but for $2900, you are getting what you paid for in the Plinius 8150i.

The only caveat is the amount of heat it produces. However, an acceptable tradeoff in return for the incredible sound quality. The 8150i basically draws the line for the law of diminishing returns. To get a noticeably better SS integrated, you're most likely going to pay over $5000 (Jeff Rowland Designs Concentra or Gryphon Tabu), unless you're going for a "different" tube sound. A perfect match for the Silverline Audio SR15.

Associated Equipment: Sonic Frontiers Anthem CD1, Wireworld Eclipse2 interconnect, Wireworld Atlantis2 speaker cable, Silverline Audio SR15 mini-monitors

A HIGHLY RECOMMENDED PRODUCT

Similar Products Used:

Krell 300i

Full power bandwidth, compact, transparent, includes MC phono

Must be left on at all times and runs hot.

I have yet to hear a significantly better amplifier at this or any price. The enormous reserves of power mean you can listen to music at realistic levels and enjoy the concert hall experience.

The amplifier is so even handed across the entire frequency band that the music appears effortless and relaxing until the music itself explodes and you are suprised by just how dynamic it can be.

I am using Wilson Benesch Act I speakers, and the front end is a Linn/Ittok/Koetsu and a Krell 300CD, wired together with Cardas Golden Cross. In this system the sound is similar to the much more expensive Jeff Rowland Concentra, but slightly more dynamic. The YBA Integre DT seems weak at the frequency extremes, and was not able to convey the weight of a concert grand piano to my satisfaction although it performed very well on less demanding music.

Don't but this amp if you are trying to impress with an imposing case or a famous brand name. But do buy it if you love music and want to save money here so you can buy a better source or better speakers.

Has anyone compared this amplifier to the more expensive pre and power amps from Plinius?

Similar Products Used:

YBA Integre DT, Jeff Rowland Concentra