Clarity, "Aural Sexuality", refinement

Tad harsh on a couple verses of a harsher CD, worse yet on the most revealing of revealing equipment, but not the speakers fault, imo, more of the recording. A little on the inefficient side, which means you need a 50wpc+ amp. 50wpc NAIM worked wonders on them though, 30wpc NAIM was a little shy.

To start I will say there are those who love a silk dome tweeter and its sexy silkiness in the mid-high region. I was one of those believers for a long time. I would listen to speakers in hi-fi stores with album upon album of the salesperson's selection--usually jazz, classical or blues, which is fine--but not my immediate preference, except for the blues.

I woke up this morning, decided if I was going to upgrade my main speakers in the near future I needed to restart seriously demo'ing speakers. I had been for some time now but took a minor break for social reasons. Picked out some of my favorite tunes and decided to listen to some speakers with my tunes. I will digress....(skip to next section if you will)...

Ok for all of you audio aficionados that do not wish to admit that your primary listening preferences are not Stravinsky and Gilespie, I offer you this. I am a 25 year old investment strategist (living in Manhattan) and son of former radio announcer (disk jockey) for a once famous rock station in California. I used to play the Horn (cornet) for a number of years, everything from classical, mostly mozart, to jazz to playing in a ska band in southern cali. Much like my musically uneducated ancestors, I was born with an ear for music. But like my father, I had a passion for classic rock and blues. Unlike my father, I am a huge Pink Floyd fan and love progressive modern music including electronica and metal.

Reviewed material: Pink Floyd - Wish You Were Here, Massive Attack - Mezzanine, Radiohead - The Bends, Tool - Lateralus (HDCD), Santana's lastest (don't know the title), John Martin

In grad school, I listened to a considerable amount of jazz and classical. It is in fact the best music to study to, and I still listen to it often because I still have an appreciation for it. But, on the weekends in New York City I usually go to underground break-beat (read techno for those of you electronica deficiently educated) parties and often the nu-metal concert. I like music of a wide variety, less pop, country and most R&B, including Classical/Baroque 5%), Blues (10%), Classic Rock (20%), Electronica (20%), Alternative (10%), Progressive Metal (30%), Hardcore/Death Metal (5%). I live a wild and vicarious life and my music reflects my life, I want my system to. (Dare I say I it?) I am not your typical BORING audiophile. In fact I hate the word audiophile. To me, it reads, I am willing to pay any price to brag to my friends that my system sounds better than theirs despite any rational/critical listening. I consider myself an audio enthusiast.

(For those who skipped pick up here)
My career allows me to spend a fair amount on decent gear. I could spend more (budget included) but that has proven to be a law of diminishing returns at best. This is where my review of the Theil 2.3's comes in.

I reviewed the Theil's against the Dyn's and the B&W's A/B comparison on NAIM gear. I first listened to the B&W's CDM series, the Dyns, B&W 804's, and then the Theils. At each step of the way I heard added refinement and clarity. The Dyns have a silk dome tweeter and thus are far more laid back in comparison to the others in the highs. I used to be a die-hard dyn fan and thought they were the best you could get at the price, I was proven wrong. They lack bass and are far too laid back in vocals for my taste, unnatural as I would describe it.

I think the Theils are the most like real life that I've heard to date Wilson Audio on Mark Levinson Reference gear included. I've been to many concerts at the Universal Amphitheater in Hollywood (purposefully built with acoustics as #1 priority) and many in New York City venues that were superb for sound, both classical and heavy metal concerts included. The Theils are NOT laid back, that is what I like about them, they are real. The Dynaudio might sound better for crappy recordings but they do not produce the reality of the music that I thought the Theils did.

Some will argue, no doubt, but I think real life tends to be a tad more forward then laid back and this is what I am accustomed to, so I like the metal tweeter of the theils better. The bass of the Theils, though, is considerably better! On the music I tested, none of the speakers came close, Theil's won hands done. Other customers who walked in and listened agreed. B&W 800 series had more, Dyns were faster, Theil's were the best. All in all, I think the Thiels were the best sounding in the vocal region, although this is the most debateable taste-wise. I am not saying you should run out and buy the thiels, but I think you should give them a critical listen.

Audiotioning Equipment:
NAIM Audio system (don't know the exact #'s)
All of the 30wpc amp, 50wpc amp, 60wpc amp (which I will say you could hear every step, although the 30-50 was the biggest improvement)
The CD5 and the CDX cdplayers.
Preamp, im not sure, retailed for @$2000.


Equipment at home:

B&K Reference 20 AV Preamp
ATI 1505 Amp
Pioneer Elite DVD Player
Sony CD player (next upgrade to NAIM CD player most likely)
Monster and Kimber Cables and Interconnects

Similar Products Used:

where to begin....everything from Paradigm to Wilson Audio MAXX on Mark Levinson Reference Dual Monaural gear... However directly A/B compared to B&W 804, B&W CDM-7NT, Dynaudio Contour 1.8mkII. Comparison and review all done on a NAIM audio $7,500 setup. Next step is to take these home for in home review. In Home review to follow.

Flat frequency response, adequate bass

low sensitivity, need for power

Excellent performance throughout the mid-bass to upper treble. Sounds fantastic driven by a Krell FPB-300 with Kimber Monocle X cables. In a home theater it is complemented well with Thiel MCS1s as center and rears.

Similar Products Used:

Thiel CS2 2, Definitive BP-10, Aerial Acoutics 10T

as previous review

none

I wanted to update my previous review because I have come across a remarkable find. Having read all about Plinius amplifiers I decided to audition the 8200 integrated. I had this for one week and decided to buy it. However I was also pointed in the direction of Perreaux amplifiers and after many email exchanges with a dealer who sells both, I decided to purchase the perreaux 200ip integrated. This amplifier has astonished me! after about a 1 week warm up, it made the Thiels sing in a way that I have never experienced and brought out their full potential. These are really exceptional speakers but with this amp they are converted to a wall of live acoustical realism. I thought I had a great result already but I now have something very special. I have tried the Krell 300i but this is distorted in comparison (with these speakers anyway). I strongly recommend anyone considering a purchase of Thiels to try them with a properly run in Perreaux amplifier.

Similar Products Used:

as previous review

Coherence, build quality, Midrange

Tweeter

I listened to these speakers at two different high-end stereo locations. One setup employed solid state while the other was strictly tube electronics. My music interests are 70% classical, 20% pop, 10% jazz and other. I listened to this approximate mix of source material. Overall, these speakers were fairly accurate with a good midrange and upper bass. The tweeter/midrange combination was good for the midrange however; I noticed a significant lack of higher frequency response. Triangles and cymbals were barely audible over the full orchestra. The upper bass (>250 Hz)was excellent and one of the best that I have heard in this price range. Below 100 Hz there was some roll-off, but this is to be expected for this type of setup. Plan on a subwoofer if you want a deep bass. I would rate these speakers better than the Sonus Faber and Viennas noted above. The B&W Nautilus 803s ($1400 more than the Thiels) beat the Thiel CS2.3 with their superior tweeter. For the money it is a close call between the Thiel and B&W. You can't go wrong with either.

Similar Products Used:

B&W Nautilus 803, Vienna Beethoven, Sonus Faber Concerto Grand Piano

"Thiels need dicipline." (read: lots of power)

Really, that's it. A dealer (one who doesn't even sell Thiels) told me this an I thought that it was wonderful enough that I needed to share. That said, I bought'em. Threw on a Bryston 4b-st (for the dicipline) a VTL 2.5 pure tube preamp (to sugar-coat my dicipline) and it has been working out magically ever since. The Thiels simply need the solid-state power (unless you drop bank on some ultra high-current tubes) and adding on a tube preamp gives you about 80% of the fun of tubes without all the mess. Ok, it's not perfect, but it's as close to having your cake and eating it too that I came in long months (ok, years, I admit my sickness) of searching. If you're considering Thiels, give the combo a listen if you can get the chance. Thiels may not be for the uncommitted, but if you feed them right, they will make you--or, at least they made me--very, very happy (but if you don't feed'em well, full disclosure, they likely won't make you so happy...demanding little monsters. Again--Thiels need dicipline, don't underestimate it). That said, great speakers that will take you as far as you want to push them.

Tight bass. Fluid mids and highs. Excellent workmanship. Good value. Amazing accuracy.

A little thin in the lower frequencies. Not able to play as loud as similar products used. Low sensitivity. Needs beefy amplification.

It was like someone had slapped me in the face! I knew I had found the speaker for me the first time I had listened to it. I had spent a lot of time researching my speaker upgrade, integrating audio magazine reviews, Audioreview.com's reports, dealer suggestions, and the most important factor...my ears into helping me make my decision. I know there are better speakers out there, but no other speaker in my price range blended the accuracy, dynamics, frequency extension, uncolored sound, and musical involvement of the Thiel 2.3's.

This speaker is not for those who need club-like volume and bass. It is for those who want uncompromising realism and accuracy. I like loud and deep music, but I was willing to make compromises. 90% of my music listening sessions are not at ear bleeding levels.

Test material included:
The Crystal Method, Sarah McLaughlin, Type O Negative, Tori Amos, Hydyn's string quartet, Tool, and Fiona Apple.

I heard them on two separate occasions at the same dealer. Different equipment was used each time. It was quite easy to tell the difference between the componets.

Associated equipment, at the dealer, was Wadia cd player fed directly into a Proceed amp (250 watts/channel into 8 ohms). The second session included NAD cd player, preamp and 200 watt amp. The NAD's did not preform quite at the level of the Wadia/Proceed combo.

A good solid state amplifier is required to bring out the best in these little guys. Leave your tubes at home! Current, current, and more current is required.

Despite the lack of low frequency response and the inability to play as loud compared to the similar products used, I still highly recommend the Thiel.

Live free or die,
Loren

Similar Products Used:

B&W Nautilus (803, 804), Dynaudio contour 3.0, Vandersteen 3a signatures, Thiel 3.6, Paradigm Studio 100's.

Dynamic, detailed, lively and engaging, soundstaging, excellent bass definition, balanced presentation top to bottom, remains clean and uncongested at high volumes for a speaker this size

Very sensitive to system matching, and to a lesser degree quality of recording

I am currently in the process of an inhome evaluation of the 2.3s and have now logged ~25hrs listening time with them. They happen to be well broken in.

So far I have been very impressed with the 2.3s and intend to keep them on my short list. I believe they are potentially the best speakers out there for under 4K.

In comparison to my current B&W 802 Matrix IIIs the 2.3s seem a hair less dynamic, and less capable of generating the same SPLs. The B&Ws are also more forgiving in that the lower treble is sweeter and slightly softer sounding, but the 802's cannot reproduce symbols and triangles as well as the 2.3 can either. The 802's bass begins to compress earlier then the 2.3's and even at normal volumes the 2.3's bass is much better defined and is slightly more extended then the 802's. Timpani on the 802's can startle but the bloom is somewhat foreshortened. On the 2.3s you experience both the initial whack and a good sense of bloom in the concert hall. At the same time the 2.3s don't miss a beat elsewhere. There is no perceived compression, even at reasonably loud levels. Each instrument remains clear and in its proper place in the soundstage. The 802's are ok in this respect but tonal balance begins to shift and intrude on illusion of listening to the real thing.

As others have commented coherence is very good. I haven't sensed a different source for higher frequencies vs. lower frequencies with the 2.3s like I sometimes can with the 802s.

The 802s are no slouches when it comes to reproducing recorded detail. However, the 2.3s are better. I felt that the 2.3s were more even across the frequency spectrum where as the 802s are quite detailed in the midrange but don't present as much information in the low or high octaves.

After reading the posts here I was concerned whether the 2.3s were going to be to bright. I can see where some people may find the 2.3s a little on the bright side and why this speaker isn't going to have universal appeal. When I first started to listen to the 2.3s they at first seemed alittle bright. Bright probably isn't the right word, maybe to revealing. For me this was recording dependent and not a consistent attribute of the 2.3. Better then 90% of the CDs I played have been very satisfying. And, interestingly, the longer I listen to the Thiels the better they sound.

Overall I think the 2.3s are one of the top speakers in this price range. Putting my 802s back into my system has been an eye opener, they just don't have the same expressiveness as the 2.3s and seem muffled by comparison.

Equipment:
Meridian 561
Meridian 508.24
Bryston 7B-ST Monoblocks
Illuminations D-60
Transparent Ultra Interconnects and Cables

Similar Products Used:

B&W Matrix 805/804/802, ACI Sapphire/Sub 1s

Clean clear open sound, Excellent Imaging, Tight Bass

Loss of valuable sleep time

I have had these speakers for some time now. While many feel they benefit from a lot of power I am getting excellent
results from my Air Tight Atm-1,(36 Watt Tube Amp). By now
you probably have a good idea of their basic character which
I would agree with most of these descriptions. They are very
revealing which you will appreciate with every upgrade and do require careful room placement. Make sure when you audition them that they are broke in. A new Thiel will sound
bright and congested until they start to relax and open up. I had the same experience with the Thiel 1.5's. Some call the 2.3's bright but I feel they are telling the truth
about the recording and your associated equipment.I have recently purchased a pair of 2'x 5' acoustic panels and 4 small corner ceiling treatments from acoustic innovations to help reduce the early reflection coming off the side walls and ceiling. This has made a HUGE improvement in the sound of our room. All the qualities we typically associate with Thiel speakers (clear, open, great imaging, tight fast bass) improved. This has been the best improvement I have made to our system so far. My wife and I are hearing things in our recordings that we have never hear before. Big Things, small things, inner detail and a lot more space and ambient cues! It has had the same effect as when you buy a higher resolution cd player or an excellent cartridge. So the 2.3's are very good speakers indeed and you will benefit greatly by addressing the room acoustics that I believe is an often over looked component in the listening room.

Similar Products Used:

Vandersteen 2c's, Thiel 1.5

Clear crisp highs, nice mids and plenty of bass.

Slight edge in the highs(bright). Price

I am currently seeking new speakers and yesterday auditioned the 2.3's for about an hour. Overall, they sounded good except for the slightly shrill highs. It may have been the electronics used (Pass Labs X-150 and Mark L. Pre and CDP) but it just wasn't my cup of tea. They reminded me of the Paradigm Studio 100's but a little more foward in the mids and highs. Maybe if they were matched with a good 100+ watt tube amp or a tube pre/ss amp combo the sound would have been better.
Because the sound was on par with the Studio 100s, I can't justify the extra $$ for the 2.3's...I'd give it 3 stars based on the setup I heard, but could see a potential 4 stars if you tried other electronics with them.

Similar Products Used:

Paradigm Studio 100, Sonus Faber Grand Piano, Vienna
Acoustics Mozart, Aerial Acoustics Model 6 & 7b

Musical instruments sound "live", not artificial; very tight bass; completely enjoyable.

Thiel's larger speakers (costing significantly more) have a more full sound (bloom ?).

In June this year, I began listening to my CS 2.3's in my home as part of a home theater system [I commented at that time (6/14/99) here and said they might sound better with a large amp]. Since that time I have added a Balanced Audio Technology VK 500 amplifier and Monster 2.2 cables. I really did not believe that there could be this much difference. I really like the way my system sounded before, but now it is truly wonderful. I am hearing things I never heard before and all with greater clarity and detail. I can play softer and hear more. It is all so smooth and musical. In my home, this combination sounds better than systems I have heard in friends homes that cost considerably more...(larger speakers, Krell FPB 200's and 200's) all kinds of acoustic treatments and ultra expensive cables etc. This are great speakers but they do sound better with a truly good powerful quality amplifer (BAT's VK 500 is most assuredly in that category). Thanks to most all of you who take the time to review products here, it has been of great help to me.

Similar Products Used:

small Thiel's (1.2's)