High SPL through the mid bass, vanishly small size.

Lack of true deep bass, boominess, sometimes lack of "heft" on certain types of music.

I must preface this review by saying I'm no Carver basher. Quite to the contrary, I worship Bob Carver. I've owned no less than three Carver products over the years, and to this day I can only think of 5 or 6 speaker systems that are even fit to be compared to ANY of the Amazing Loudspeaker models. The man was, and still is, ahead of his time.

When I heard about the new Sunfire company, I really wanted to like his subs, but I just can't bring myself to recommend them.

I have a couple of buddies that were "early adopters" of this sub, and one of them is still very happy with his model. Yes, I have heard the newest models, save the signature, and I'd say my reservations apply equally to them.

I respect anyone who cares enough about the science of reproduced music to not only invest most of his/her money in gear, but to also take the time to share his experience on this forum. My intent, I again hasten to add, is not to "down", in the vernacular, anyone's opinion, or to cast aspersions on anyone's ability to discern good sound. That said, I must respectfully take exception to the oft-expressed opinion that being a musician/producer/ engineer/porn-star, ad-nauseum grants special audio dispensation to anyone. Research done over two decades has indicated pretty conclusively that musical training has no bearing whatsoever on the ability to discern differences, better or worse, in reproduced sound. Perhaps even more disconcerting, musical taste (or lack thereof) has also been shown to have no bearing upon this ability. Yes, even a Britney Spears or Marylin Manson fan may have a better ability to evaluate sound than an opera lover. Sad, but true. End of rant.

The "iron law", formulated by Henry Kloss, and later incororated into the "Theile-Small Parameters," describes the inevitable tradeoffs involved in bass enclosure design. I encourage anyone not familiar with the physics of speaker design do a little reading on the subject. It adds an interesting dimension to the hobby, and illuminates design elements relevent to the average audio enthusiast. One of these elements is the tradeoff between enclosure size and sensitivity of a speaker. A very large enclosure, all else being equal, will produce much louder bass than a smaller one, given equal power.

Of course, the Sunfire doesn't produce equal power. It produces a Helluva Lot of power! A Borg cube has nothing on a Sunfire cube in this respect. However, unbeknowst to most Sunfire users, about 2,350 watts of this power is used to overcome the back EMF of this enclosure. A more detailed explanation that I can give in this space is available in the late, great Audio Magazine. The performance of this design is exemplary, given the design limitations inherent in this piece. But, figures don't lie. One or two posters on this site mention using an SPL meter. Their reaction to the results likely depends on their definition of deep base. Several reputable reviewers have pointed out that while the unit performs well, its' DEEP bass is greatly attenuated compared to several of the "heavy hitters" of the subwoofer world. To clarify, this sub will produce deep bass, but not at volumes approximating those of the mightiest Velodynes, HSUs, etc.

I've had the ability to evaluate this unit in many systems, in homes and at dealers. I've felt in every instance that the mid bass was a tad bloated and overbearing, and I've never heard a system in which the deep bass was reproduced with the power one is accustomed to hearing in a Velodyne, Paradigm or Hsu. This may not matter to everyone, I admit. Very little music contains true deep bass. Yet, for me, the lowest notes of the largest pipes of an organ, the lowest register of an acoustic bass, and the largest kettle drums normally found in orchestral music demand the unfettered and unrestricted access to the lowest octaves.

I found my opinion of the Sunfire changed somewhat where home theatre was concerned. The relatively high output in the mid and upper bass regions is a plus for movies, if one's setup allows one to reign in the boominess inherent to this sub.

As an aside, it seems that Bob is becoming quite the audio slut lately! His amps appear in many manufacturer's subwoofer offering, from NHT to Advent, from Acoustic Researh to Boston Acoustics. More power to him! Glad to see he's getting respect from peers and the industry at large. I recently heard, but can't confirm, that Carver plans to resurrect the Carver line and sell it through Sunfire. We could only be so lucky!

In summary, I'd never discourage anyone from auditioning the Sunfire subs, but it would do a disservice not to recommend that one listen to some of the other reputable subwoofers out there. I personally don't feel the Sunfire is a very good value at the premium it goes for. In that price range, I think there are a lot better models for the average audio nut. Anyone who browses the length and breadth of this site know my allegience ( I own a pair of HSU TN 1220's, and my test discs and spl meter respectfully indicate that the Sunfires just aren't in the same class-but admittedly, they are six or seven hundred more). But, personal loyalties aside, anyone looking to spend over a grand on a sub really should do the research, unless they're independently wealthy (if so, buy a B&W-the name will impress more people! Joking- they make great gear, too).

I would invite anyone interested in discussing this or any other subject audio to E-mail me. There are a lot of great products out there, and no lack of opinions!

Have fun and enjoy the gear.

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The list is long, but distinguished.

As stated before, size and power output.

As stated before, lack of TRUE DEEP BASS, and I KNOW!

This is an addendum to my previous review of this product. Correspondance from a fellow audio enthusiastist made me re-visit my review: I stand by my criticisms of this piece, but I feel that my "star rating" was a bit harsh.

Allow me to elaborate: I do feel that at the premium asked for the product it is a monumental rip-off, and I still feel that it eats the dust of dozens of better subs, yet even so, my overall rating may be too harsh.

It's been brought to my attention that in many cases, performance must take a back seat to size, price, finish or any number of "spouse acceptance" variables. When one's signicant other will not permit the space required for adequate performance, less desirable options must be explored.

The Sunfire True Sub is one of the best inadequate subs on the market. No, the "true bass" is in no way present in scientifically quantifyable terms, yet it is LOUD and small. My review failed to consider the value of this pieces' small and unobtrusive footprint.

In light of these new criteria, my reviews are as follows:

All the bass I need!

Takes some effort to balance with main speakers.

This is a response to the long review below, where the gentleman requested comments. The website is not processing letters directly to reviewers.

I have the sub and a 100+ pipe organ CD collection. To kill the boominess, use a parametric equalizer. Dial in 2 1/2 octave cuts at 25 and 50 Hz. Then you will hear a 19 Hz 'D' from the Pedal rank at fortissimo!

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BSR Pass-through subwoofer(modified)

Small size,big output,solid construction.

Not as fast as the small M&K,RELs,will not go to a true 20Hz but its close

First things first,none of theSunfire subs are in any way boomy(the ones who posted such BS have boomy hearing aids!).

I have two Sunfire subs and let me tell you they go very low(down to 20Hz) and blend well with large speakers.The Signature does not blend well with small speakers.It has no mid-bass to speak of.

Setup is critical here,and most dealers and wannabe audio experts fail to set the Sunfire properly and scream about how bad the Sunfire sounds.

Go listen youself dont get brainwashed by the few negative posts you read here.I have a Dynaudio Contour sub at home and it beats ANY HSU in the musicality departament.HSU are cheap cardboard boxes with driver at one end and a piece of plastic at the other.

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REL Q200E,M&K(most units),Paradigm Servo 15,Velodyne HGS series(12 and 18),B&W,Klipsh,Aerial Acoustics and Dynaudio and HSU