detailed imagery, great mid''s and deep bottom end

the old cabinets are large 18" x 18"

For those of you that have a pair aging F''s they can be rejuvenated. I had thought that my F''s from the early 70’s had reached the end of their life. I was looking on the Internet for speakers to replace them when I stumbled across Ohm’s web page, I had no idea they were still in business. I read that they have an upgrade policy, replacement drivers, for their older models. Well I was intrigued by the idea of getting that great “F” sound back again. So after some consternation, needless I may add, I ordered the Mk 200 upgrade. They offer different upgrades based on room size. The Mk 200 were the ones best suited for my home theater. They showed up on my doorstep a few days later. The installation took about ½ an hour. I couldn’t believe how good they sounded. At first was concerned about how they would sound with my center channel speaker. Well all I can say is who need 3 speakers when 2 work so well. Using the phantom center mode is by far the best way to hook them up in a 5.1 or 6.1 system. As for music the 3d imagery is just incredible they sound even better than the original F''s. Hard to believe but it’s true. Thank you Ohm for hanging in ther all these years.

Similar Products Used:

Altec lancing model 7, Cambridge soundworks Towers & Newton S300 surround, Infinity Towers, Ohm E''s... I have lots of speakers

A few years ago I bought a pair of OHM F's with blown drivers for a hundred bucks. I finally decided to blow the $1000 for the F190 upgrade and am very glad I did. I've never heard such precise stereo imaging before. Especially percussion instruments and vocals. You feel like you could put your hand out and touch the instruments. The F190 upgrade is a ported driver with adjustable bass response. Also by removing stuffing from the original cabnits you can add more mid bass. I'm driving them with a Carver M1.0. I wouldn't recommend less than 150 watts rms per channel. These are not efficient speakers. BTW, the F190 upgrade is sort of a black box driver. Where the original driver was sort of a strange silvery inverted cone, very interesting to look at, the F190 upgrade is a mysterious block box that you can't see the inside of.

One of the VERY BEST SOUNDING loudspeakers in the world / Innovative design / "Live" soundstage / Solid construction

Hard to drive / Heavy and clumsy cabinet / Fragile drivers

I got a pair of these incredible speakers years ago, sound is powerful and bass response is exceptional. Friends and visitors were impressed by the "Live", 3D sonic qualities of these huge speakers. I used to drive them with a Classé Audio DR-3 amp (hi-current) and it worked quite well despite the low powered output of this amplifier.

I now have an all different system, today, but I still use OHM speakers (the 2X0, heavily modified - less interesting designs than the OHM A & F). I think it is sad the company did not pursue in the way they were at the time they did the OHM F. They were going in the right direction.

Similar Products Used:

Ohm 1X0 and 2X0 Loudspeakers / Celestion SL-600 / Acoustat / SMGa / Quad ELS / MG 3.3R

Incredible spacial & aural imagery, musical bass, smooth highs

Size, power requirement, DC intolerance

My background is the pro-studio environment. I've worked with Meyers, UREI's, Altec/Lansing's, JBL's - the whole gamut. The Ohm's are the speaker I want to listen to at the end of the day. It may not be widely known but this was THE first phase coherent speaker in the world! KEF and the rest were just also-rans.
I bought these speakers used in 1977 for $400/pr from a guy who replaced them with Dahlquist DQ-10's (all the rage at the time). I won't part with these at any price even though the two speakers are 3db imbalanced (2x power) What I've discovered is that the drivers for the F models are extremely intolerant to DC. That means clipping can, and will blow the drivers. I have always powered them from Mac tube amps which have tranformered outputs, and so cannot pass DC, and had no problems, friends who have used direct coupled amps have blow the drivers at an alarming rate. Bottom line is these are the best...period.

Omni-directional, solid bass, smooth highs

Blown drivers, need lots of power

I heard these in 1976 and was blown away. I can still remember hearing a direct-to-disc recording (the highest of hi-fi at the time) of Thelma Houston and getting chills when the backup singers kicked in seemingly an arms length away. The sound does not appear to come from the speakers. I used to play the opening of "Rock Candy" by Montrose for people and the impact of the drums and the 3D sound amazed them. The opening of of one of the songs on the Little Queen album by Heart has the sound of coins being thrown at a cafe. With the Ohm's you could point to the exact spot where the coin landed. Mine are hurting with fading foam surrounds and one driver that was repaired by a shop before I owned it that has higher resistance (6 vs 4 ohms) and consequently lower ouput than the other driver. I wish I could return them to their glory days and hear that sound again. I may be able to fix the foam but the repaired coil is probably beyond my talents. If you find a pair with good drivers and solid foam, buy them, I guarantee satisfaction or I will take them off your hands.

Great conversation piece. Spatial, airy and smooth sound like that of no other speakers I've listened to. Soundstage greater than room size. (25' x 20')

Large (can't miss them in a room), expensive (when you could buy them) but then you wouldn't want to see them over at your neighbor's either), work best with lots of headroom in amplifier power.

I first heard the F's at a stereo shop almost 30 years ago. The first thing that struck me was their unique design and the effortless spatial quality of their sound. Being something of a gadget junky I was hooked. But the buy-in was too steep for me at that time and besides gaining spousal approval for what essentially would be toys for me was a long, long shot. : )

The units I own had been in a fire at the Stereo Shoppe in Tacoma and they had a fire sale (go figure) and I saw the F's advertised for 1/2 off the then retail of $1800. I had to do it and did. I originally drove them with a Luxman R-1070 receiver rated at "only" 70 watts but that receiver had caps the size of Saturn V rocket boosters. I knew there was plenty of oomph behind those watts. It proved to be a good marriage for many years until I had the bug to power up the F's with something more. I bought one of Carver's cube amps and the F's came alive. When cranking up the loud knob the lights in the room on the same electrical circuit would dim with the bass produced. Lots of current going out there. The Carver was a cap-less design that "borrowed" power from each channel as needed. I mentioned above how good the F's are at being a conversation piece. Well, a longtime good buddy of mine first came to our door when he had recognized the unmistakable F's when driving by our living room window and he also drove the same color, brand of car at that time. The rest is history but we still talk about the F's which I still have (they're being re-foamed) and he wishes he never parted with because of a long move. I'm just not sure if his friendship is real or he just wants my F's? Sorry Steve. : )

Similar Products Used:

None

widest & deepest soundstage of any speaker made, maintains tonal balance even at low volume, extremely solid bass foundation, seamless midrange, revealing treble, etc...

Will not play "super" loud, driver "warbles" presenting vibrato effect if trying to reproduce deep bass notes at high volume levels, internal wiring is HORRIBLE, binding posts are junk, not forgiving of poor electronics at all, requires high QUALITY amplification but not necessarily high power for best results, very low impedance that they present to amps, more difficult to optimally position than more conventional speakers, etc...

These speakers require the finest of electronics to obtain their optimum performance. Not necessarily high wattage, just something with high current. A Threshold T-50 or Forte' 4 (both rated at 50 wpc @ 8 / 100 wpc @ 4) work quite well with these speakers. A Robertson 4010 ( 60 @ 8 / 120 @ 4 ) would also do well here. I've also used a Classe' 70 (75 @ 8 / 150 @ 4) which drove the speakers fine. Bass was lacking with this amp and treble greatly exagerated but it did not "poop out" when trying to forcibly raise the roof.


More power is a welcome thing though, especially if you can maintain the quality of amps previously mentioned. These smaller amps will work fine unless you feel the need to "jam" quite often. Honestly though, these speakers weren't made for jamming and you should probably look elsewhere if that is one of your main goals.

Having said that, i HAVE "jammed" these speakers to much higher levels than others will tell you that they are capable of with NO problems whatsoever. So long as the power is clean and the speaker is not audibly complaining ( and they DO complain ), you should be okay. One tell-tale sign that you need to back it down though is the smell of burning grease. The factory used grease in the magnetic gap to reduce rubbing and friction. If you're getting the grease hot enough to produce "stink", you know you're pushing it. While i have smelled "liquified petroleum based products" emanating from the speakers and floating through the air, i've never done any damage. THANK GOD !!!

Due to their very low impedance, some amps will run out of steam rather quickly if you start cracking the throttle. Don't be fooled by price or reputation though, as a Yamaha M-80 (250 @ 8) worked MUCH better than a Bryston 4B (also 250 @ 8) did. Other good candidates that i've tried with these are the Robertson 6010 (200 / 400), Sunfire (300 / 600) or Sunfire Signature (600 / 1200), Perreaux 3150B (350 / 500), Kinergetics KBA 202A Platinum Mono-Blocks (250 / 500 / 800) and Forte' 3's and Forte' 6's. Both of these Forte's are rated at 200 / 350 with the 6 having greater ass output & impact. My favorite speaker cables with the F's have been Goertz MI-2's. The Perreaux / F combo seemed to work best with YBA Diamond speaker cables though along with the Kinergetics Mono-Blocks preferring Goertz MI-3.

The bigger Forte's produce the most "air" and "sweetness" by a wide margin but lack bass definition due to smaller power supplies. The Robertson 6010 sound good with better bass punch while retaining most of the sweetness but not as much air. The Sunfire's are just a notch behind the Robertson in that they lack some of the spacial characteristics but do sound "effortless" since they have such a large power reserve.

I have two sets of the F's. I liked the first set so much that i bought a set just to keep as "spares". They are quite different from each other due to production changes. One has larger "U" shaped frame rails whereas the other has flat stock. One had the pedestal box fully stuffed with wool and the other had a partial filling of fiberglass. By changing the type / location / density of stuffing, you can fine tune exactly how much low bass, mid bass and upper bass the box contributes. Depending on the room acoustics and tonal balance of the rest of the system, you should be able to strike a good balance.

One thing that is consistent with both sets is that all of the drivers measure well under 4 ohms nominally. At very low frequencies, you can expect something more along the lines of very low 2 ohm range with it leveling out to about 3 ohms higher up. As such, typical "mid-fi" amps need not apply for a job here. Since most of these products tend to sound bright and grainy, you probably would not want to mate them with the F's anyhow. The F's are FIERCELY sensitive to reproducing treble smear, glare, grain, splashiness, etc...

As mentioned, these speakers are a TRUE test of treble purity in a system or recording. They are extremely revealing of changes upstream once they are properly set up. In order to do this, you must bypass the factory speaker wiring at the base of the pedestal and hook your speaker cables directly to the binding posts mounted on the Walsh frame. MAJOR difference in performance and transparency. Treble is DRASTICALLY extended with a less metalic sound, upper mids are opened up, midrange becomes more liquid, bass is much firmer and defined with less ringing, etc... I've done several other simple yet effective mods to mine with each one contributing better bass control / definition and increased transparency.

With the speakers properly positioned in the room, you can expect the widest and deepest sound stage that you've ever heard ( so long as the electronics are up to the task ). Instruments and notes float like you've never heard before. Comparing this type of presentation to ANY box speaker is pointless. Some e-stat's and planars come close in terms of dimensionality and air but typically lack the bass authority that the F's so handily demonstrate.

For those folks trying to run these with receivers or "mass produced" electronics, all i can say is that you've never heard these speakers or what they are capable of. I'm not trying to sound like a "hi-end snob", i'm simply stating fact. I've been there / done that and have come to appreciate the differences that DO exist with various electronic designs and system combo's. I would HIGHLY suggest checking into another means to power these fine specimens of sound reproduction. Of course, even the finest of amps and speakers can be crippled by a poor souce, preamp, cables or low grade recording. One hint is to look for wide bandwidth designs when it comes to amps & preamps. Another one is to use tubes SOMEWHERE in the digital pathway and / or an upsampler. Whether it be a tube CD player, tube based DAC or upsampling DAC, this can make a WORLD of a difference in musicality and dimensionality.

Also, don't be put off by the "unrepairability" of the foam on these speakers. While Ohm may tell you that they will never work the same if you have them refoamed, that is not true. You simply have to find someone that is willing to do the job correctly and has experience with the Walsh's. While they are acknowledged as being the most difficult dynamic driver to work with, it can be done. Be careful with whom you trust these irreplaceable gems to though, as some that claim to be capable of repairing these simply aren't. If you want specifics as to who you should or shouldn't send these to and how to pack them, feel free to drop me a line. I would rather help save these "rarities" than see someone pay to have them ruined by improper packing or "cheap labor".

If you have the opportunity to listen to a set of F's in a system that has been well dialed in, i HIGHLY suggest it. It will change how you look at music reproduction, especially speakers, for the rest of your life. Sean
>

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There is NOTHING similar. Currently own speakers from the following companies / designers with most of them having slight tweaks or upgrades performed to them: AR 9's & 90's in my HT system, Nestorovic, Genesis, Klipsch ( La Scala's and Heresy's ), various E-stat's, a few custom built designs, etc...

I have a review below, this in an addendum. Please visit my hobbyist website at http://members.aol.com/Walshdriver/index.html for more info on Ohm Walsh speakers!

Soundstage that has not been matched by "modern" speakers; realism. Coherency (seamless quality)

Lack of dynamic range; inefficient

Interesting; in the previous post Rick said he bought his Ohm Fs from a person that replaced them with DQ-10s. I did just the opposite! In 1977 I had a fleeting relationship with the Dahlquist and replaced them after a few months with the legendary (now) Ohm F. (Actually, I knew at the time I purchased the DQ 10s that I wanted the Fs
but the Fs were much more money.

The Ohm F was my sole speaker system for about 12 years. It was a remarkable loudspeaker capable of a realism of musical reproduction which in some ways cannot be duplicated by currently available systems, except perhaps for current Ohm Walsh speakers and the limited other Walsh based systems available here and abroad. When set up properly (several feet from a wall) and powered with a decent amp the F produced a HUGH soundstage that correctly replicated live music. The imaging was astounding, not necessarily "pinpoint", but a realistic portrayal of
live music. While I have not used them for more decade they served me well for over a decade. My secondary system includes a pair of Walsh 2, which I have had for a while for use in my den.

I have always been strong in my belief that the Ohm F was amongst the very top speakers during the 70's and 80's. The year I purchased them in 1977 I had attended over 20 classical concerts at three Bay Area symphony orchestras as well as numerous soul music concerts (free tickets from a DJ friend) in an attempt to have live music as my primary
reference. I listened to numerous speakers and actually brought several home on a trial basis.

Actually, as the year progressed I found myself leaning heavily toward electrostatics such as those from Acoustat, Dayton Wright, Beveridge, and the like. I had never heard electrostatics before I began my search. But they clearly were the top technology of the day. Then I stumbled on
the on the Ohm F which was not widely distributed on the West Coast. Of course, the F was not an electrostatic, but shared some of their charateristics of having no crossovers, no woofers, no tweeters, no midrange drivers, for a seamless musical reproduction. However, the
since of realism was greater with the F than with those electrostatics, perhaps because of the omni directional sound projection of the F and because the bass had
greater authority and authenticity and because they could be played a lot louder. I paid $1200 for the pair in 1977 (when they were replaced by the Walsh 5 about 1990 the Fs were going for $5000 new).

There is no question that it required lots of quality power. When I first purchased the F's I had a 180 watt Sansui intergrated amp. But the
current limited Sansui could not properly drive the F's. Neither could a Phase Linear Dual 500 amp that I tried. For example, while the Sansui was 180 watt into 8 ohms it was only 190 watts into 4 ohms; the F's presented a stable impedance draw of 3.7 to 4 ohms. The Sansui would
clip at relatively low levels and the Phase Linear, while better was still not up to the task.

So I called Ohm and talked to a few tech people. The way it was explained to me by the people at Ohm the F required lots of voltage. Watts without adequate voltage was almost useless. They recommended either the SAE 2500, the GAS Ampzilla, and one other I can't remember. I
purchased the SAE. Interestingly, they specifically recommended against any MacIntosh (tube or solid state) because the damping factor was too low. I remember them saying that a damping factor of a least 10 was
required. The way it was explained to me that any damping factor over 10 was superfluous. (10 to 1000 is a very insignficant improvement, but an increase of say, 9 to 10
is a very significant improvement). While many amps were quoting damping factors of several hundred the MacIntosh and was quoting 5; not nearly adequate to control the Walsh driver. For this same reason no tube amp was recommended.

The SAE did a wonderful job and used it until I had to move it out of a closet into the listening room. The fan drove me crazy. I then powerd the F's with a Electron Kenetics Eagle 2A, which while small, was mighty, and did a great job. (By that time I had biamped the F with a subwoofer crossed over at 60hz, not for more bass but for more dynamic range. See below).

Yes, the F was indeed satisfying. One thing they did lack however, was dynamic range. You needed at least 75 to 100 watts to make them "speak" but they would only accept 250-300 watts. So not much dynamic range. Analog recordings did not cause a problem. Neither did Pop or Soul music at very loud decibel levels. However, the wide dynamics of some of the early digital Telarc classical discs began to really stress the F's. I purchased a B2 50 sub woofer, which bought the F's a couple of more years of life. My livingroom was just the right size (17 X 23) for them. This enabled them to placed in the room at least 5 feet from the rear wall and 3 feet from the side walls where they performed best.

However, when I moved to my current house with a larger livingroom (24.5 ft X 30ft with 10 foot ceilings), that proved to be too much for the F for authentic listen levels of music with wide dynamics and deep bass (Romantic classical, for example). (In that respect you have to give
other speakers of the day such as the Klispch Horn their just due. They took the digital age dynamics and large rooms like a walk on the beach).

When I searched for a replacement speaker for the F I first looked to the then new Ohm Walsh speakers. But in an effort to increase efficiency the new speakers lost that "magic" which made them stand out among speakers in their price range. They still had the wonderful soundtage
and superior imaging and they were more dynamic but were lacking some intangibles that I can't pinpoint. So after extensive listening I settled on speakers from a little known company called Nestorovic Labs. I had to spend about 10 tens the original cost of the F to get what I was looking for. Subsequently, the $7,000 Walsh 5
became available, which I never auditioned it, but heaven forbid, Stereophile and the Absolute Sound both rated it very highly!

I last listened to my F's about 5 years ago when I under went a speaker change to upgrade the Nestorovic's. However, it was not the same experience. Full
range they sounded great, wonderful sound stage and unexcelled imaging, but I wasted a lot of time trying to mate them some subs for dynamic range. By the time I came close to making it work right my new speakers arrived and the F's went back to the basement where they remain today (in perfect condition as far as I know.

Recently, I listened to the Huff System 3, which utilizes
an improved version of the Walsh driver (the drivers are purchased from German Physik and then further improved upon) and while it sounded much better ($18,000 system) it also proved how much of a genius was Lincoln Walsh.

The system is *indeed* impressive it sounds and presents itself like the F (but much better), but for my situation they would still be overwhelmed by a 7,000 cubic foot room. I'd say they would be perfect in a room of up to 4500 cubic feet. In which case, they would sound as good if not better than any other near $20,000 speaker I have
heard.

By the way, I mentioned the F *very* briefly in the review
I made of the new Sony SCD-1 SACD player. If you have a
moment check out the review under CD players. Anyway,
from that very brief mention of the F I received several
inquiries wondering if I still had them and would I sell
them. They are indeed legendary. I really don't believe
I could part with them if only for sentimental reasons.
I checked the surrounds and they look solid).

When I was researching the German Physik speakers (only because they looked like the Ohm F). I spoke
with Dan Sweeney, a reviewer in the Absolute Sound mag,
who reviewed the German Physik and actually bought the pair
he reviewed. He has the highest respect for the Ohm Walsh
and their primary designer (who I believe may be the
company president) and he told me that he heard that
Ohm will be introducing a new full Walsh (no cheater tweeter), but used with a sub.

I understand that Ohm has gone back to basics with lower efficient but amplifier friendly Walsh speakers. If so, they may once again be a price performance tour de force.

Robert C. Lang

P.S. I did blow the drivers with the Telarc 1812 Overture but Ohm totally replaced the drivers at no cost.

Similar Products Used:

None really; the Lone Ranger

Super sound stage, dispersion is unbelievable!

Need lots of power, very big, take up LOTS of room.

I first saw the Ohm F speaker about 25 years ago, when they were first introduced. I immediately wanted them! There was only one thing standing in my way. I was so poor, I couldn't pay attention. Over the years, I progressed and aquired a number of sound systems, but I never forgot the Ohm F (I think it was that funky Walsh driver sticking out of the top). Well, I finally got a pair of the originals. Boy! It was really worth the wait! These are terrifc sounding speakers. They have a three-dimensional quality that I've never heard in a speaker before. You can walk completely around these speakers, and THE SOUND QUALITY DOESN"T CHANGE AT ALL! This is like being at a live performance, where sound comes at you from all directions. I realize thatthis sounds like a review for Bose speakers, but the Ohm F blows the Bose 901 away in my book. This is not to say the Ohm F is perfect. It needs at least 75 watts to really produce, and they are quite large, and somewhat bizzare looking, but I can't fault the sound at all. If the opportunity presents itself, listen to them sometime, you won't believe what they sound like.